Debbie Foster (00:03):
Welcome back to The Powerful Leaders No Apologies podcast, where we celebrate fierce, fabulous females making waves in the legal world. I’m Debbie Foster and I’m excited to introduce you to these women who are leading the charge with their bold leadership and influential journeys ready to be inspired by their powerful stories. Here’s the show.
(00:27):
Welcome to another episode of Powerful Leaders. No apologies, I feel like a broken record when I say I am so excited about today’s guest because I feel like I’m always excited about today’s guest, but today is actually a really unique situation because our guest today came to me in a bit of an unusual way, and I started, I went and listened to this 10 minute long podcast, which I will put in the show notes because I think you all should listen to it. And I was like, yes, we absolutely need to have this person on our show. And today prepping for recording, I started reading about this amazing woman and all of the cool things she is doing. So without further ado, I want to introduce all of you to Linda Calvin. One of the things that is unique about Linda is our audience, which is mostly female powerful leaders who are not apologizing for claiming their seat at the table, but they’re mostly in law firms or companies that are associated in the legal industries, and they are kind of breaking through that glass ceiling and leading the way. And a lot of our guests, our listeners are kind of familiar with, but I think you’re going to be a new face to most of our listeners, and I could not be more excited about that. So Linda, thank you for joining. Give me your elevator pitch about who you are and what you do.
Linda Calvin (01:48):
Well, thank you very much for having me, Debbie. And so Linda Calvin, chief Impact Officer for reboot representation and a reboot representation. Our mission is to double the number of black Latina and Native American women earning computing baccalaureate degrees by 2025. We’re almost at mission and in my role, which I just started in 2023, I’m the chief impact officer and my role is to help companies that belong to our coalition. So we have a number of companies who belong to the reboot tech coalition from tech companies like Google and Okta to s and P Global to Walmart, to UKG. So everyone’s a tech company these days. And so my charge is to work with those companies in our coalition to help them create and sustain inclusive cultures so they keep the talent. And my role was created because of data that came out in 2019 and even just as recently as last year of women leaving Tech. So my job is to help companies in any way I can, aside from Legal consult, I don’t do that in my role, but my job is to work with them and help them however they need. I’m the plus one to their team, and I’m free to them however they need my help. So they keep talent. So we quit losing women from tech, and that’s what I do.
Debbie Foster (03:19):
I love that. And it’s actually, I’m sure you won’t be surprised to hear that many firms are struggling to keep women lawyers too. It’s probably a very similar reason, the whole inclusive culture and feeling like they belong. And you also have your jd, so you did practice law? I do. How’d you, you practiced law for a little while. You were like, eh.
Linda Calvin (03:43):
Well, what happened was I worked at Dow agriscience, what was Dow? Lanco became Doo agriscience. Now knowns Corteva. And I was working there. I started my job on a help desk there and system support. This is Linda and I started working my way through, but I wanted to take advantage of their tuition assistance program. So I earned my undergrad from Butler University go dogs and journalism. And then one day I was working and we decided to have a happy hour, and I was having margaritas and chips and salsa with a friend, and he said, you know what you should do? And he was going to Tulane at the time, and he said, you know what you should do? You should go to law school. And I said, law school, I never wanted to go to law school. I wanted to be a PR person. I grew up either wanting to be an ambassador, a French ambassador, or find new ways to sell. That was my dream. And I never aspired to be a lawyer. And he said, just think about this, Linda though, if you marry your communications background, all that tech experience with a law degree, think about how influential you could be. And I said, I can’t do that because the law is way too black and white. And he said, Linda, at the end of every question, he goes, I’m an engineer. At the end of every question for an engineer, we have an answer at the end of every question for a lawyer is depends.
Debbie Foster (04:59):
It depends.
Linda Calvin (05:00):
Trust me. It’s not black and white. And so the next thing you know, the Pied Piper stopped Debbie, and now I’m sitting in the middle of the LSAT going, what am I doing here? And so I sat for it and went to law school and I loved it. I enjoyed the learning piece. I continued my work in tech at Dow, and then I was part of a 2,400 person layoff. And a friend of mine said, Hey, you want to come work for me at the city of Indianapolis? And I said, sure. So I was a assistant city prosecutor for Officer of the Corporation counsel. And so that was my stint. I did a lot of pro bono work and volunteered with Indianapolis Legal Aid Society, but then the Siren Song of Tech called me back and I left and I went back into tech.
Debbie Foster (05:50):
Wow. I love that. It’s really funny. I do a lot of strategic planning work with law firms and I get asked questions all the time by lawyers about what does profitability mean in a law firm? Or what should our strategic plan look like or how do we deal with this succession planning problem? And my answer is always, well, I’m going to just use your favorite answer, which is, it depends.
Linda Calvin (06:14):
Exactly, right?
Debbie Foster (06:16):
It depends. It depends what you’re trying to accomplish. So I love that. That’s a great story. So I, as a woman who started off in technology in the nineties, there were days that I was, we had those tennis balls that had holes drilled in them, and we put coax cable in them and tied them and we tossed them through drop ceilings to connect two computers together back in the day when computers weren’t connected together. That’s how long I’ve been in technology. And I have largely been disregarded in many, many rooms for being a woman in technology. It’s something you are very passionate about. We could probably share stories for days, hours, weeks, years, months, whatever. Absolutely. But I want to hear about what you’re doing in Indiana for women in technology.
Linda Calvin (07:06):
So I want to share something with you quickly that people say about women in technology with law degrees and communications. And someone said, well, you’re just all over the board, aren’t you? And I said, no, because communications technology and the law are about solving problems. And somebody said, I never thought of it that way. And I said, that’s what it is. So it’s beautiful to me. It’s a beautiful convergence. So what I’m doing is I’ve always been an advocate for women in tech and I started in tech and I have a card reader in my background. That’s how long I’ve been around. vax. VMS was a competitor to the biggest, one of the biggest competitors to IBM. So I’m not only dating myself, I’m carbon dating myself, but last year I was sifting through and in my role I have to, last year I led a project with McKinsey and Company to understand, and we interviewed and surveyed over 2000 black Latina, native American female and non BLNA, what we call BLNA, technologists and companies, 22 companies, to see what their policies are and what they’re doing.
(08:15):
And it came back that nine policies were identified to say, this is what causes me to stay. And so it’s called the nine Cornerstone Policies and Practices. And I was sifting through that data and the more data I began sifting through, it was like we’re losing women. Accenture reported in 2019 by age 35, 50% of women leave tech. We’ve seen at reboot representation, our data revealed that since 2018, we’ve seen a 10% decline in the number of black Latina, native American women working in tech. So women are leaving. And so I’m sifting through all of this data and it, it makes the heart heavy. And I’m like, how do we fix this? And I started googling and I found that New York City back in 2020 had a day dedicated to women of color in tech. And I was like, well, that’s interesting. Maybe we should do a Women in tech day.
(09:17):
And so I started thinking about it and writing notes, and I reached out to a friend of mine and I’m like, look, I’m always the person with the big ideas, always, always, always. And I need help with this one, can you help me? And she’s a PR Jedi. And she said, I will, but I want you to reconsider and make a day to a week. And I was like, it’s on like Alderon, do it. Let’s do it. And there’s the geeky part of me coming out. So next time somebody says, oh, you have a journalism and a JD and you’re not tech, I’m going to say I just used a star analogy and I do it every day. So I put a working group together. I talked to the Office of Equity and Inclusion and opportunity for the state of Indiana, got them on board, started working with local thought leaders, and I said, we’re going to do this.
(10:05):
So we submitted all the paperwork for a week in December, right before Christmas in February, we found out Governor Holcomb signed it. We have an annual Indiana Women in Tech Week, and we are the only state in the United States to have one, which is amazing to me because I hear things all the time about Indiana, really. And I was like, Indiana, really? There are fierce awesome women in this state who want to make a difference for other women. And we come together and we work together and we’re going to amplify the voices of women in tech because we are contributing Debbie to the tech economy and we have for years, but we are not seeing each other. And as I shared with you before we started, every week I meet a new female leader that I never knew existed because we’re so busy with work hard, keep your head down, contribute, contribute, contribute that we don’t see each other and we need to see each other and we need girls to see us so they can be us, right? Yes. So I’m passionate about it, as you can hear my voice, love it. And I’m so excited that we have this week, September six 15th through the 22nd.
Debbie Foster (11:18):
Well, and something that I think is drawing the parallel to the universe that I live in mostly with law firms, I say to our clients all the time, you are a law firm, but you’re also a technology company. And you’re a data company.
Linda Calvin (11:34):
That’s right.
Debbie Foster (11:35):
That’s true for everyone. Now. You can’t do what you need to do for your clients without really thinking about your data and how you protect it and how you make sure that the right people and only the right people have access to it and you can’t do what you need to do for your clients without. And it’s not just about the tools, it’s about the people and process and how work gets done. And I don’t know about you, but I feel like women are uniquely suited to not just have those technology roles, but be the ones who can really make an impact when it comes to empathy and compassion and understanding and smarts and how you explain things and how you connect dots together for people and how you travel along that journey with them. And that to me, I feel like I end up being in a position to explain technology and data challenges to non-technology and non-data people in a way that I have never seen my male counterparts, maybe never is the wrong word, but almost never seen my male counterparts be able to do that, right?
(12:49):
We’re unique, we’re awesome, we’re unique and awesome. And the idea of, so I’m going to a conference next week, the International Legal Technology Association, and there will be 3,500 people there. And if you were to count just the attendees, I don’t know the exact number, 2000, 2200, something like that, there’s going to be 70, 80% men. It’s going to be a high number. I don’t know exactly what the number is, but I know that that organization is passionate about women in technology. In fact, I need to get you connected to that organization because I think that that would be, we need your voice in that room, especially someone who is making such an impact in the world around women in technology in general, not just specifically in law firms. So the work that you’re doing is amazing. And the way that I got to you listening to the podcast, which I’m going to link in the show about some of the data that you shared, especially around what you just talked about with the women in technology.
(14:00):
So as I was digging into that and I was looking like, who exactly is Linda Calvin? I got to your website and from your website, it just caught my eye a little blog post called, hi, my name is, I’m so busy. I don’t know if this is even front of mind for you, but I call busy the B word. It’s just a bad word. Please. When I say, when you respond to me with busy, I’m like, that was not the question. The question was not how much work do you have on your plate? And then you go through and you talk about the definition in the dictionary about work and busy and your thing ends, which is so funny. Instead of you making an excuse, the reason why you didn’t do something or you didn’t connect with someone or you didn’t reach out is because you’re too busy. You suggested that you could say, I’m sorry, I can’t meet with you tonight. I’m auditioning for a superhero position with the Avengers. I was like, I love this woman. This is amazing. So this whole glorification of busy, right? So we have women in technology, women who are supremely busy, women who are default parents, caretakers, have all of these other responsibilities. How do we manage it all?
Linda Calvin (15:14):
I’ll tell you, when I figure out, no, it’s so hard. And I think for women, we do. I have a problem, and I just told someone today, I have a problem saying no. And I think a lot of women do. Now I’ve met a few that say, Hey, you know what? I don’t have time for that. And I think we need to practice that. But I think it comes from a source of we want to help other women because empowered women empower women, and we want to help other women succeed because we walk through it, we understand it, we recognize it, and so we keep saying yes. And sometimes we say yes, and we do a lot of things for free. We do a lot of things and we’re underpaid, and we do a lot of things just out of sheer passion and commitment. And sometimes we’re doing it because we’re told we need to do it.
(16:09):
Work hard, keep your head down. And so I think Debbie, what we have to be better at doing as women, and I’m going to practice this, is to say, okay, I am going to commit that I am only going to say yes to those things that matter. There’s another word that they use for it. Somebody. I think there’s a book about it, what I give bleeps about. But I think that we have to say in this year as an example, there’s so many events, and I think this applies to every woman. There’s so many events where you’re at so many, and it seems like every event is $150 too. So I don’t know what’s up with that. But there’s so many events and I said yes to so many. And last year, between all the travel I did from work and all the volunteering and all just the work, I was constantly going to things and I got so burnt out and tired.
(17:04):
And what I decided for 2024 is even though I may feel a little fomo, even though I may see people at the event with the boast posts, the hand on the hip posing, I have to challenge myself to say, did I need to be there? I need to do things that matter to me directly that help me and my growth and development. And sure, it would be great to go to all the fantastic things, but we need to start being more deliberate so we don’t burn ourselves out because it’s very easy for women to do it. And I don’t know where it comes from if it’s just an expectation that we’re always supposed to be wherever and smiling and giving of ourselves. We need to take better care of ourselves. We agree. We really, really do. And I know people say that over and over again. It sounds cliche and like a soundbite, but it is for sure true.
Debbie Foster (17:58):
It is true. So let’s talk about creating an inclusive workplace
Linda Calvin (18:05):
And
Debbie Foster (18:06):
Whether it’s keeping women in tech or just keeping women, period. How do we create inclusive workplaces?
Linda Calvin (18:14):
I think there are small, easy low hanging fruit things we can do. And number one, and this sounds kind of funny, I was vice president of the school of it at Ivy Tech Community College, and I would notice that in big meetings, and we had so many, the women would type things into the chat to me to bring up to others because they were spoken over. And so here’s the thing, I was new to higher ed, but I’ve been around for a minute. So I was like, all right, I’m going to bring it up. What about this? And I will do that. I’m not afraid to ask questions. And I realized that it was always, there are a few women who would speak up, but by and large they would send it to me and I would amplify. And I think the one thing that men, that male managers can do and other women as well is to recognize it and then help that woman amplify her voice.
(19:10):
So if as an example, Joe is in a meeting with his team and he sees that Sarah usually just types in the chat or sends something to him, he needs to help her amplify her voice. Sometimes it may be a style like understanding, Hey, is she more quiet? Is she more introverted? But sometimes it’s just the simple fact that as a woman, we know that sometimes our ideas are co-opted. They’re not good ideas until someone else says them or we’re not going to be listened to. So hey, recognize that you have somebody on your team that contributes on the regular and amplifier voice. To me, that is a very simple thing to recognize and do and have a conversation with your female staff to say, Hey, what do you want to do? What’s your passion? Where do you think we could fix things? And to have a real conversation, you should have it with all of your employees anyway as a leader.
(20:11):
But for women, we really need to do that. And then start celebrating women’s accomplishments and how they’re contributing and what they’re doing and considering them for leadership. I had someone tell me I was in a room, Linda, and here I am a manager. And I was told to, oh, for this meeting, did you make sure that we had some danishes and coffee? And can you take the notes? And it’s like, just like I was telling you, we’re in a time when I can speak to my water faucet. I can tell my iot to turn off the lights and add something to the grocery list. That’s the day and the age that we live in. But I’m still walk into a room and expected to fetch coffee and take notes. That’s ridiculous. And I think we need to understand and know that women are contributing to the success of companies. And if you really truly want to make all that money and be successful, then you have to realize who can contribute to your bottom line. And that’s diversity of thought, gender, idea, background. That’s what we should be doing. To me, the best way to think about it is to flip the script on how we think about women and their roles in our organizations and how we can take advantage of our innovation and our brilliance to actually make companies more successful, generate that revenue
Debbie Foster (21:45):
For sure. And being in the world mostly filled with law firms. I mean, that’s where I spend all of my time. It’s something that I am working with a firm right now who has this issue on their list. How do we do a better job of keeping our women lawyers? And a lot of it is in a law firm, the culture of a law firm is the partner. Track happens coincidentally, right? About the same time that getting married and having babies and all that fun stuff happens. And it can be a real struggle and a real challenge. And it’s one of the things that we talk about. How is your law firm parent friendly, not just mom friendly, forget about mom friendly, it’s 2024. We need to be parent friendly. How do we figure out how to be parent friendly? And sometimes to the people who are running law firms who are oftentimes in my generation or older, that is kind of a foreign concept. And so there’s a lot of challenging that I see on the HR side of things and the people operations side of things where those practical, tactical things, making sure that women feel heard, that they’re invited to speak, they’re invited to the table there, that we are doing what we can do to make them feel like they belong, but also that we have policies and we have a structure in place that supports women in their roles and supports parents just generally speaking in their roles.
Linda Calvin (23:22):
Right? And Debbie, we did research last year and it’s called Systems Upgrade, rebooting Corporate Policies for Impact. And we surveyed over 2000 black Latina and Native American female technologists and non BLNA male and female technologists about policies and practices for their company and would result in them staying, because it used to be you’d be with a company 10 years and that was loyalty. Now we’re at two years. If you’re with someplace two years, you got it. But companies are starting, the pendulum’s starting to swing because companies are now saying, wow, we are spending a lot in knowledge transfer. We’re losing a lot of brain IP by attrition. And so how do you get your talent to stay? And so these nine cornerstone policies and practices were identified, and believe it or not, Debbie one, it took us by surprise, it’s paid sick leave. And we were like, okay, every company has paid sick leave.
(24:31):
How is this possible that paid sick leave is a thing? As we unpacked it, what we realized is number one, we need to communicate better within organizations about how you can use paid sick leave. So if you are mom and you are the primary caregiver for the kids, if your child is sick, can you use sick time for that? If you as a woman need to go to your OB GYN or the dentist, or you have a cold or you have to go to the doctor, are you using sick time for that? What if you are charged with which a lot of women still carry the weight of this, and it was revealed during covid. What if you’re the caregiver for a parent?
(25:14):
Can I use that as sick time? The other thing that was revealed too is for some women, they feel like I can’t take sick time because of how it’s going to look. I don’t want people to think, oh, she’s sick. The other thing that came out is in some women feel like that if I’m not on this call and I’m sick that I am going to have a decision made for me. I’m not going to be included in a decision where I am a decision maker. So I can tell you many times how many times, Debbie, have you sat on a call when you’ve been sick as a dog with your laptop in your lap, participating on a call when really you should be sleeping and recovering so you can get back to work. So it was all these things that came out and it was like paid sick leave.
(26:02):
We need to do a better job for how you can communicate, how you can use paid sick leave. The other thing that came out, Debbie, was next steps for advancement. So we get performance management every year and we’re told the opportunity sandwich, right? Oh, you’re great. Oh, you suck at this. Oh, you’re great. And this is how you become a better litigator or a better IP attorney. This is how you become better. But what about what’s next for me? And how are we having those conversations with women to say, what do you want to do next? And how do I help you as your leader get there? What training do you need? How can I connect you with people? And so these things were identified and people are like, those aren’t even diversity initiatives. Those are just policies and practices that many of us already have.
(26:58):
But sometimes it’s just amplifying, Hey, you have this and you can’t take it. Right? You can take sick time if you’re sick, don’t come in here. Take the time. If you recover, you will be more productive to me than if you are sick as a dog sitting on a call. Right? Absolutely. So these are things that law firms that anyone can do to say, what do our policies look like and what can we do to make sure that women understand that they can take these and train our managers to know that Uhuh, if somebody’s sick, they can take the sick time. If someone wants to be the next CEO and that’s where they want to go, how are we going to help them? Meanwhile too, taking advantage of all that rich, robust knowledge that they have.
Debbie Foster (27:47):
I love that. And I would love to be able to link to that document in our show notes. It sounds like that could be helpful for any organization who’s looking at how do I become more inclusive, women friendly, family friendly. So we’ll definitely link to that. So I feel like we could talk for days. I said this before we clicked record, but I want to ask you the question that we ask all of our podcast guests. It sounds like you are in a leadership role in a lot of what you’re doing in the many different areas where you are making an impact. What would you say that your leadership superpower is?
Linda Calvin (28:26):
I think my leadership superpower is, and what a lot of people tell me, it’s connection. I’m a master connector and I spend a lot of time when number one, having one-on-ones with people, do you want to have time with me? Just the other day, I took a day off just to have networking time with people in the community who reached out to me and said, I’d love to talk to you about how do I pivot into tech? What if I’m having a challenge in my role? And so I just set a day and I did connection, and I had one-on-ones and said, how are things going? What is it you want to do? What are you trying to do? And just had conversations and then connected them with the others who could help them. And I really feel like that’s my superpower because it matters. Networking is also a superpower, but I think being available to people, being vulnerable, because here’s the thing, a lot of the partners and the leaders at these law firms, I am sure some of them had a tough ascension
Debbie Foster (29:33):
To power.
Linda Calvin (29:34):
I mean, there are probably some that said, Nope, it was the smooth sailing cool all the time. But there are obstacles and challenges that they met. And being vulnerable and being able to share those and how they move through it is very valuable for sure. So giving that to your employees so they can learn from you. And what do you know more about than anything else in the world is yourself. So if you can connect with someone and then connect them with others who can help them nurture and grow, that’s what’s important. That’s my superpower.
Debbie Foster (30:06):
That’s amazing. I love it. Linda, thank you so much. We’re going to put your contact information in the show notes so people can learn more about you. And I already, my brain is just spinning with the people that I want to connect you with and also some of the women that are in the Indiana, a LA chapter, the Association of Legal Administrators that are involved in technology. I’d love to make some connections there. So my brain is already spinning. Thank you so much for being a guest. This was so informative. I’d love to have you here.
Linda Calvin (30:39):
Thank you, Debbie. And I just want to offer one other thing to you that is very, very valuable, I think too, especially to your Indiana chapter. On August 23rd, I partnered with a local gallery owner and we got a grant to host an event called Artificial Intelligence, the New Canvas, and it’s the intersection of AI and R. And you say, why is that relevant? Because we’re kicking off the event with a panel and we are inviting. I have a panelist, her name is Angela Freeman. She works at Barnes and Thornburg as an IP attorney. And you want to talk about that intersection of tech and legal because we have artists on that panel. We have an attorney on that panel and right now AI and are converging and it’s causing chaos for artists and especially ip. Oh man, it’s big time. Who owns it? If it’s created with AI and you’re using an algorithm, you’re training your algorithm with my property, intellectual property, and I’m not allowed to opt out, it’s going to be a great event. And it’s a pure demonstration of what you said earlier, the intersection of tech and law and art. So that’s August 23rd, and you can find me on LinkedIn and learn more about it.
Debbie Foster (32:01):
Awesome. And if you would send that to me in an email just so I can get the right people connected, that would be great. Thank you again. Amazing, amazing episode. I appreciate your time.
Linda Calvin (32:10):
Thank you so much for having me, Debbie. I appreciate it.
Debbie Foster (32:16):
And that’s a wrap. Are you feeling inspired? Take that energy and go make a difference today. And don’t forget to subscribe to keep up with our latest episodes, and if today’s show really resonated with you, share this episode with your friends and colleagues. You’ll also find some resources and ways to connect in the show notes. So until our next episode, get out there and change the world.
