Debbie Foster (00:03):

Welcome to the Powerful Leaders. No apologies podcast, a show about women who are ready to own their power and change the world. My name is Debbie Foster.

 

Beth Thompson (00:12):

And I’m Beth Thompson. Our guests are fierce and fabulous women who are making a difference in their personal and professional communities. Are you ready to be inspired? If so, stay tuned and also check out our website@affinityconsulting.com slash powerful leaders. Here’s the show.

 

(00:34):

Welcome to this latest episode of Powerful Leaders. No apologies, Debbie. We’re back again.

 

Debbie Foster (00:41):

We are back again. It, it has been quite the ride. Today’s a marathon day. We’re recording a few episodes, and I’m so excited about the last one we just recorded, and I’m super excited about this one.

 

Beth Thompson (00:52):

Yes, they’re all going to be treats for the listeners, and today is a special guest that I don’t know. We’ve known each other for quite some time and through several companies I know that I’ve worked for, and it’s always been a pleasure and we get to see each other at conferences, and I’m super excited today to talk to you about the latest adventure in your career and the book that you just published. We’ll hopefully get into that, but would love to welcome Amy Juers to the show today. Amy, let’s just go ahead and dive right in. Would you please share with our listeners a little bit about yourself and about your career journey so far?

 

Amy Juers (01:28):

Sure. Yes. Thank you. And I’m so happy to be here too. I’ve been waiting for this moment, so as soon as we started talking about it, I’m like, yes, absolutely. I’d love to reconnect this way and share just a little bit about me. So I am the CEO of Edge Marketing, and this agency is one that services legal software and service companies. And so we help our clients market their products and services to legal professionals. And we also do it with dabble in the accounting industry too. But most of our clients are in the legal industry that have respective of industry sizes. But yes, we every day, day in and day out create strategic plans and implement them and just really help amplify our clients’ voices in the legal industry. And it’s really exciting, really fun. I’ve been doing it for, while I’ve owned the company for 16 years, going on 17, and I actually got started at a company, this is kind of back in the days when you would look for a job in the newspaper.

 

(02:34):

So quite a while ago. And I saw a listing for this company called Quorum, and I don’t know if you two are familiar with Quorum litigation, it’s more on the now, it would be an eDiscovery kind of company. Gotcha. But they were paper discovery and creating databases of documents for litigation, et cetera. So I joined the company. What attracted me to it, I was in the process of getting my M B A and it said M B A preferred. I’m like, oh, that looks interesting. It’s for a business analyst position, nothing about marketing. And I was kind of open to whatever. So I interviewed and they’re like, we want to hire you, but can you do some marketing too? And I’m like, sure, because I did study marketing in college, whatever. So that’s how I got into this industry. This, you don’t wake up as a college grad and say, I want to work in litigation support just unless you’re a lawyer, et cetera.

 

(03:25):

But anyway, so that’s how I got into the industry. And actually when I was at forum running the marketing department, eventually I hired this agency that I own now help me with PR because I was more of a traditional marketer, magazine, advertising, conferences, trade shows, et cetera. I did not really have a strong PR side to my knowledge and expertise. So we hired the agency and I went to go work with the agency, and then I took over the agency three years later. So when I took over this company, I was, well, Debbie, you can probably relate because you have the grand babies right now. So I had a two year old, a four year old and a six year old, and we were virtual. So I was working from home and I did not my, I had to send my kids daycare, but when they were days that they were home, I was literally pulling my hair out like, oh my gosh, this is hard. And I think people that are obviously survived the pandemic can kind of relate to that a little bit now because it’s just a lot to balance. But somehow I pulled it off and we’re here today and company, when I took it over had four employees now are up to eight and some other contractors that help us when we need it, and it’s just been a really fun ride.

 

Beth Thompson (04:36):

Tell us a little bit about the journey to publishing a book. How did that come about? What was the path? How long did it take? I want to know all the things. Debbie and I secretly are on our bucket list to be published authors. So we want to know all the things, right?

 

Amy Juers (04:50):

Yes. So I kind of feared it, so I kind of put it off for a bit, but it has been one of my bucket list items as well as a professional. I see Ari Kaplan out there writing blogs and other, and I’m like, well, I can do this, but where do I find the, so I actually turned to RA and asked him. I’m like, Hey, can you give me any kind of insight, whatever. And so again, bucket list item, and it came about the desire to do it, to really buckle down and do it was during the pandemic. And I thought as if the pandemic was waning, what we had to do as an agency, we had to shift and pivot the different services that we were offering for our clients because we all lived through it, like the trade shows and going virtual was just painful, and our clients were so disappointed.

 

(05:40):

And no matter what we did, no, you’re trying to, those virtual trade shows, it’s really hard to see any R O I. So we had to pivot and shift and come up with new ways for our clients to market their products and services to their audience. And so through those experiences, I thought this would be a great time to just put a stake in the ground and say, here’s not really necessarily the new way, but this is how things have changed and these are the things that are working in today’s market. And so that’s from a timing perspective, why I chose to do it then. And so it published in February, March of this year, but it took a year. It took one solid year to do this book. I worked with an excellent publisher and she does this for a living and obviously, and she just told me exactly all the steps, and there’s a lot of paperwork that behind the scenes and filings and things that you have to do that I’m just totally not familiar with.

 

(06:35):

And so she just walked me through all of that or did it for me and just made it really easy from that perspective and just gave me really good advice on how to write. If I were to write it, I probably wouldn’t have brought in the more general brand perspectives into the book, but to make it more appealing to a wider audience, that was the advice that she gave me. And so I managed to weave in some of those stories and stats, et cetera. So wasn’t a difficult process. I had to help with the outline and she, she’s like, that looks great. Let’s get going, and just making it all come together. Besides the writing, she did the editing and the formatting and got me on amazon.com and Barnes and noble.com and whatever. She knows how to do all of that. So she really did make it painless, and I did. I gave her a rave review, LinkedIn and on Amazon. So yeah,

 

Beth Thompson (07:33):

It’s always great to bring in excellent resources. We’ve done the same to help get our podcast off the ground and continue to rely heavily on Brittany Felix for her expertise. Before we move on to the next question, I do want to say, Debbie, I think we need to give an award to the person who’s been most mentioned on our podcast, but yet to be a guest, Ari Kaplan. He was just, yes, talked about in the last episode that we recorded. Oh, funny. We love Ari. So yeah, we need to give him an award.

 

Debbie Foster (08:01):

We need to give him an award, and then we need to figure out how to work that into our little shtick here. I do want to ask Amy two questions about her book. The first thing is I’d love for you to tell us who this publisher is, because my suspicion is there are some people listening to this that would also like to write a book and would love a guide to help them do that. And the second thing, what is the title of your book and what are one or two big takeaways that someone who would read your book would get? So a little shameless self-promotion about your book, Amy. That’s what we would like.

 

Amy Juers (08:36):

Oh my goodness. Okay. I don’t like to write. So her name is Tasha Borden Troy, and she is an attorney, and the name of the company is Ramses, R A M S E S. House Publishing and Publishing for Lawyers dot com is the website. And she is phenomenal. Excellent. She’s just amazing.

 

Debbie Foster (09:01):

We will put a link in the show notes to her. And now your book, tell us what are the two big things?

 

Amy Juers (09:08):

Well, the Marketing Edge is the name of it, and it’s on Barnes and Noble and also Amazon and a few others that there’s a whole list of them. But those are the two big ones. And the two big takeaways, I would have to say what it offers is practical advice and checklists for each aspect of marketing and PR at the end of every chapter. And I think to me, that’s rolling. You don’t even have to read the chapter if you start getting bored with the chapter, it’s like go to the end and look at the checklist and then use that. And then at the very end, there’s a trade show guide. Sometimes people at the last minute, they’re like, oh, let’s go exhibit at a l a or a d a or whatever it is. And so there’s a really helpful checklist at the end of that, the book as well, when you get stuck in that kind of scenario.

 

(09:59):

I think when you look at a marketing budget for companies like yours or legal software, whatever, trade shows are probably one of, if not the biggest expense, like trade shows and events on all of the line items. And so when you’re spending tens of thousands of dollars, maybe not hundreds of thousands, but some people do, you really need to see return on that investment, and you really need to make the most out of it. And through Ilta and their lot of these business partners pay for the sponsorship to get a booth at Ilta Con. But really there are other things you can do before the show, obviously during the show and after the show that are really not maximized. And so that’s something to, I think that the book can pull you in and give you ideas on what you should be doing in that regard.

 

Debbie Foster (10:51):

Awesome. That’s great.

 

Beth Thompson (10:52):

Speaking of books, what books have you read lately that you think would be great to share with our listeners? Or what are you listening to? Are there podcasts other than this one of course, that you are enjoying that we should share with our listeners?

 

Amy Juers (11:06):

You guys are going to be mad at me. You’re going to be really mad at me because, and my friends just shake their head when it, I honestly cannot read for pleasure. It’s so sad. And I honestly cannot get into, I mean, I love podcasts, but when I work out, I’m in, that’s usually when I would, I don’t have a commute. I work from home, but with my job, I read and write all day long, and I wish I had the desire to read for pleasure right now, don’t in my life, but I hope that it comes back to me. I have read books in the past, whatever else, Ari’s given me a signed copy of his book, that Indian Tech show, and I read that I, it’s so hard and I feel almost embarrassed about it, but honestly, it’s not right now in my life, an enjoyable thing because I professionally read and write all day long. So when the clock is over and I’m done with my workday, oh, it’s really hard. And I have a neighborhood book club, and I can barely get those books. I can’t contribute to the conversation because I’m like, is there a movie about this book? Because I could watch the movie. I can handle that. But anyways, so I said I had to apologize because it’s not, yeah, I have nothing to offer.

 

Beth Thompson (12:29):

This is the No apologies podcast. You do not have to apologize for the fact that you do not have time, because you’re right in your professional world, you are reading and writing all day, so you do not apologize for that.

 

Amy Juers (12:41):

Yeah, I wish I had the drive, but honestly, I just can’t find it right now.

 

Debbie Foster (12:46):

So Amy, maybe let’s jump over to talk about obstacles and challenges that you have faced in, you already talked about one of the most important ones, like having a two, four and a six year old when you’re starting to starting a business is tough. But what other obstacles and challenges you have you faced as a woman leader of a business in legal? Love to hear more about that.

 

Amy Juers (13:10):

Yeah, good question. So I am very competitive and winning is what drives me. I love winning. I hate losing. So in the earlier days when I was doing proposals for potential clients, because sometimes I would lose them because we’re not, oh, you’re not in Chicago, or You’re not in St. Louis or you’re not in Austin, or whatever, and that would bug me. Well, obviously that challenge is now gone because everybody had to go virtual and now they’re like, oh, yeah, and remote or virtual. So that was one early on challenge that I had, and it just irritated me. But I think more recently, sometimes I feel like I don’t win a proposal because I am a woman. I don’t know, I if you guys feel that way at times too, but I have a really strong spidey sense about people, and sometimes I just feel like maybe that’s the reason why I don’t know.

 

(14:10):

So I really worked on trying to come across as more confident and more, I guess. Yeah, I feel like that’s a challenge that I don’t know if I feel as much today, but maybe mid year and owning this company, I felt like I was something that really kind of bothered me. So that’s one challenge. Another one is, and maybe you have experienced this too, I assume you have, is walking away from deals or from clients, and it’s still hard today, but there are some clients that we have had that are the law of diminishing return kind of comes into effect where they’re insatiable or more, it takes more time and work and energy and spirit out of us than what we’re getting back. And having to walk away from money is hard as a business owner, but that is definitely an obstacle or a challenge that we’ve had to overcome is you don’t always know that when you’re first getting into an engagement with somebody, if they’re going to be a difficult client or insatiable or whatever. And then once you get in there, you’re like, oh boy, what’s going on here? And we’re delivering, but they’re not a good match. And so walking away from deals is definitely a hard thing for us to do. We’re a small company. There’s only so many.

 

Debbie Foster (15:41):

Let’s dig into that a little bit because I think that that is a common challenge for all of us. Sometimes it’s talking to a new client and you have that little spidey sense that this is not going to be a good fit, but it’s a deal and you want to win the deal. And sometimes you don’t find out until afterwards. And I think it’s something that we all men and women alike are trying to figure out how do we work with the right people? Have you put anything into place or do you have any advice that you would give around staying true to yourself and who your ideal client is? And how to define a big marketing strategy is all around who’s your ideal client? And when I say that to a law firm, a lot of times they’ll say everyone. I’m like, no, that’s the wrong answer. Everyone is not the right answer to that question. Talk a little bit about that.

 

Amy Juers (16:33):

So through the years you learn, so our ideal client is not the Thompson Reuter, Lexus Nexus Walters cooler kind of big. They already have their in-house marketing and pr. So that’s just not something that I go after when I’m prospecting or whatever. So also, I do have quite a few conversations with these people before we get started, and I try to pick up on whether or not it’s a good fit. So I ask the questions, and I also do my due diligence before I even get on the phone with them, is look at what they’re doing, look at how they’re projecting themselves on the internet through social or their website. What are they doing in terms of stories and thought leadership? And I can, I’m doing this a lot, so I can pretty much pick up on, yes, there’s a need. Yes, this is a really going to be a really good fit for us.

 

(17:28):

So that’s the more tangible things. The intangibles are like the personality and the culture of the company too, and kind of are open and receptive and they have that one point of contact that we can work with directly and make things happen. Sometimes it’s the c e o and sometimes the time is limited, so that can be kind of a challenge. But ideally, it’s a company that either has something really big to announce at launch or they haven’t done a lot of marketing historically, so they’re new to the legal industry. Those are ideal clients for us. And in terms of the personality, what I really try and do too is I can pick up on the person that is going to be our main point of contact. Are they super succinct and give me a yes no? And they don’t need a lot of context. So I have people on my team that are very succinct, get it done, check the box, et cetera. But then I also have people that are very verbose and they don’t mind explaining everything and having those longer, deeper conversations. And so what I try and do is a matchmaking thing where I try and match up the client with the right account manager so that right off the bat, the personalities are going to match. And it’s been successful.

 

Beth Thompson (18:46):

You do that very well. We’ve had the fortune to work together in a few different capacities over the years, and I’ve worked with multiple people on your team, and you are an excellent matchmaker. That is definitely one of your superpowers, which we’re jumping ahead, but we’ll get back to that later.

 

Debbie Foster (19:02):

So obstacles and challenges. That was some great advice. The title of our podcast is Powerful Leaders. No apologies, the No apologies part is a really important part of that. Beth joked with you earlier, you don’t have to apologize for not reading that. It’s a great example of how that’s, especially as women, statistics show, we apologize more than men, and we do it as sometimes it’s a filler word. Sometimes it’s to be able to continue the conversation feeling like you’ve made a concession for something that you have done or you haven’t done. But I would love to hear more about your thoughts around women and apologizing and how we show up as strong, powerful people claiming our seat at the table. Any thoughts on apologies?

 

Amy Juers (19:51):

Yeah, absolutely. So when I first took over this company, I radically sat down with my boss at the previous job. He was my mentor. He totally believed in me. He gave me things that I didn’t realize that I could do, and I accomplished them, obviously through his leadership. And that was back when I was at Quorum. And so he definitely challenged me a lot. And I had never run a company before I, so I was honestly a bit terrified. And so I sat down and had lunch with him, and I’m like, tell me what to do. And he could tell I was nervous and stressed and everything. And he said, Amy, just be yourself. And I’m like, oh, okay. I mean, immediately, I’m sorry. I’m like, I don’t have to be this big monstrous person walking, stopping in the room and strutting. And I just had to be myself. And he must’ve seen something in me that I was just unable to see in myself at the time. And so I unapologetically was myself going into this and just really remained true to myself. And I wasn’t trying to be something that I wasn’t was just really, I went into each meeting, every conference, every call, just being myself. And luckily for me, it worked out.

 

(21:19):

But I felt that sigh of relief when he said that to me. But now today, I really truly understand how important and powerful that was for me to realize it at that moment. And so having that mindset. And what’s interesting now too, what I’ve kind of taken away from that, or I guess blown up in my mind is when I meet people, I also, I’m kind of looking for that. Are they authentic? Are they who they say they are? Or I feel like I can sniff that out pretty easily. And so I think that’s very powerful too. And so if they’re not authentic, I unapologetically do not try to build a relationship with that person. Quite honestly. It just doesn’t feel good, and it’s not who I would want to associate with. And so that’s all I have to say about that.

 

Beth Thompson (22:18):

That comes with wisdom because I think know, at least for myself earlier in my career, I felt much more of a need to embrace everyone, invest the same amount of time in everyone, especially being in sales for so many years. But I’ve learned over time that it is smart to invest wisely because we only have so much time. We only have so much of ourselves to give. And you want to make sure that you are using those resources in the best possible way.

 

Debbie Foster (22:49):

I think that it’s also, there is something really freeing and liberating about just be yourself. If you can really believe that, and you can believe that, I mean, we all show up differently depending on who you’re with. If I’m leading a group of partners in a strategic planning engagement, that’s very different than how I show up for my team. But when you’re talking about how just be yourself can be your default, so you can understand that if that isn’t enough, that you have some decisions to make about staying in the room or not staying in the room or getting to know someone better. So I think that is really simple and really powerful advice.

 

Amy Juers (23:34):

Yes, I was so glad to receive it 16, 17 years ago because it really did make a difference in my comfort level, everything. So

 

Debbie Foster (23:43):

For sure.

 

Amy Juers (23:44):

And I’m glad I was, I’m glad I’m able to share that here. So write it down.

 

Debbie Foster (23:48):

It’s a pay it forward thing for all of us. We get these little nuggets and pieces of advice throughout our careers that come back to us at exactly the right time to be able to share them with someone else and just be yourself solves a lot of problems. You don’t have to try to figure out who else you need to be.

 

Amy Juers (24:05):

Right.

 

Debbie Foster (24:05):

Okay, so Amy, we asked the same question of all of our guests as we wrap up our episode. And that question is, what is your leadership superpower? So you’ve started a company, you’ve grown a company, you lead all of your clients in their marketing efforts. Your hat that you wear every single day is leader in one aspect or another. What’s your superpower?

 

Amy Juers (24:28):

I would have to say relationships, relationship building and trust. That comes with trust. And so just building solid relationships with people that are reliable and resourceful and committed and with my team. So they are amazing. And if you read my book, you’ll see that right from the get go that I could, I would not be where I am today and I could not have written a book without my team. They are the glue that holds us all together. And I as a leader, love to give credit to those that earned it. So you will not see me taking credit for any of the success of our clients because it’s them. They are the ones that make it happen. And I think being able to express that and surround myself with people that are smarter than me and better than me, and way better at doing this than I am it, to me, it’s a superpower because I just really feel like it’s not me. It’s, it’s the team, and I truly appreciate them.

 

Beth Thompson (25:38):

Great to give kudos to the team. We are definitely going to post a link to your book in the show notes. Amy, we want to thank you for being part of the show today. It’s been our pleasure to have this conversation. We look forward to seeing you in Orlando at Iltacon in August, I’m sure. Oh yeah. Be there, right? Okay. Very well. Thank you so much. We appreciate your time today.

 

Debbie Foster (25:59):

Thanks Amy. And that’s a wrap for this episode of Powerful Leaders. No apologies.

 

Beth Thompson (26:07):

And that’s a wrap. Thanks for listening to Powerful Leaders. No apologies. Be sure and subscribe to our show and help us spread the word by sharing our show with your network, and check out our show notes@affinityconsulting.com/powerfulleaders for resources and ways to connect with us. See you next time.